This topic contains 12 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Dave perry 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #4213

    jamie
    Participant

    Among all my friends, family and relatives both my wife and myself are in a minority of two for never signing up to Facebook. I made the paranoid decision not to sign up as I thought it would collect too much personal info about me. Just because I was paranoid, did not mean I was wrong.

    However I have just read a BBC news article where the journalist discovered that Facebook was collecting and saving far more information than they knew about or were happy with.

    With no way of knowing, how much does Facebook know about me, and I betting there is no way of ever deleting that info either.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43539881

  • #4214

    jumpingjack
    Participant

    I work in the digital marketing arm of a global consumer brand and we’re busy preparing for the implementation of GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) in May. All companies that hold data on EU citizens will be bound by the rules and trust me, we’re taking it really seriously.

    The fact that companies can be fined 20m€ or 4% of global turnover (that would be billions for us) means that this isn’t some vague issue like clicking on cookie notifications. It will mean that as an EU citizen, you have the right to know what data is stored about you (even by companies outside the EU), the right to have it all removed and all other types of control.

    In a way this FB controversy is coming at the perfect time. The key principle behind GDPR is that companies will never ‘own’ your data. You will just let them use it for a while.

    This won’t stop Russian troll farms and dodgy scam sites, but it will go some way to keeping some control on your data. It will essentially be illegal to store data you don’t have a legitmate need for (mobile phone call data being logged by FB messenger for instance) and once you no longer need data you will have to delete it.

  • #4215

    torieboy
    Participant

    I’ve not been on it for a couple of years now, I refuse to allow facebook to know what level of candy crush i’m on.

  • #4216

    Crud
    Participant

    Simply dont post things you don’t want people to know, use or share. As for what they know about me, I couldn’t care less.

  • #4217

    jamie
    Participant

    Dont post things you don’t want people to know, use or share. As for what they know about me, i couldn’t care less.

    @crud really? You don’t mind if your car insurance policy suddenly costs you twice as much? Or the company you book your flights with for your summer holiday suddenly refuses to fly you and refunds the tickets instead? Or the relative you were talking about with Alzheimer’s suddenly gets their bank account cleaned out via a phishing cold call?

    The fact that you couldn’t care less just shows that you lack imagination as to how data held on you will be used.

  • #4218

    harry
    Participant

    Really? You don’t mind if your car insurance policy suddenly costs you twice as much? Or the company you book your flights with for your summer holiday suddenly refuses to fly you and refunds the tickets instead? Or the relative you were talking about with altzheimers suddenly gets their bank account cleaned out via a phishing cold call?

    @jamie or personal information can be specifically tailored to attempt to influence the way you vote or choose not to vote through apathy.

  • #4219

    jamie
    Participant

    or personal information can be specifically tailored to attempt to influence the way you vote or choose not to vote through apathy.

    True. Everyone must know about this by now though, it’s been in the news a lot in the last year. I’m more thinking it’s the current uses that have not come out yet, or not been picked up by the news yet or are not even happening quite yet but will in the future that should be causing people to worry.

  • #4220

    Niles
    Participant

    GDPR should put a stop to this!

    Come 25th May (when GDPR comes in to force) you can ask Facebook to tell you everything they know about you for free (under the existing law they could have charged up to £10). It’s called a Subject Access Request and you can do it any way you like: e-mail, telephone, write them a letter. They are entitled to verify your identity before handing the information over (obviously) but they have to respond within 30 days.

    Does GDPR apply to you if you cannot be identified I hear you ask??

    GDPR is quite clear that personal data is data that relates to “an identified or identifiable natural person”. “Natural person” means it doesn’t apply to companies, or to the deceased. “Identifiable” means that, even if the data doesn’t include your name/address/phone number, if there’s other information in there which could be used to identify you – including, for example, things like your IP address – then it’s personal data.

    If the data is completely anonymous then it doesn’t count as personal data and GDPR does not apply.

    GDPR doesn’t apply to – in the sense of impose legal obligations on – individuals or data subjects: it applies to companies that process personal data (data controllers and data processors). It does give data subjects certain rights, but it’s the data controllers/processors who are obliged by law to fulfil those rights when a data subject chooses to exercise them. If they only hold data which was collected anonymously, or which has been anonymised and the original data destroyed, then when you come along with a subject access request they are perfectly entitled to say “we don’t hold any of your personal data” – because it would be true. But you’re still entitled to ask, because otherwise how will you know?

  • #4221

    robert
    Participant

    However I have just read a BBC news article where the journalist discovered that Facebook was collecting and saving far more information than they knew about or were happy with.

    @jamie I think I heard the same report. What surprises me about these people who keep finding that Facebook has their address book is that you get specifically asked if you want to allow it access to your address book when you sign up, so they must have okay’d it at some time. A number of apps do this. I have always steered clear of doing this since most times it isn’t really important for the app to work.

  • #4222

    torieboy
    Participant

    @jamie Can you explain how them knowing your hobbies, age, marital status etc suddenly turns into flights being cancelled? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon of over exaggerating the issue?

  • #4223

    Dave perry
    Participant

    @jamie Please enlighten me – and a few others in what data ‘they’ can gather that would result in a cancelled flight or a car insurance policy suddenly costing me twice enough?

    If my insurance company ups my insurance I simply look elsewhere – don’t you? As for the bit about flying – you’ve lost me there. Why would they?

    As I don’t have a relative with Altzheimers I can’t see that happening, but I appreciate your concern. As I said in my post – don’t put stuff on FB – or anywhere else that you wouldn’t want to share.

  • #4224

    jamie
    Participant

    Please enlighten me – and a few others in what data ‘they’ can gather that would result in a cancelled flight or a car insurance policy suddenly costing me twice enough?

    @dave-perry Your private data includes all text messages and voicemails you have sent, every e-mail, facebook message, whatsapp message, etc. etc. If you have a smart appliance, it includes data on when you go to the fridge, maybe what your diet is like. Your car is capable of collecting data on when you drive, where you drive, how fast you drive, what g-forces you generate. Your switch and store card habbits record exactly what sort of foods and drinks you buy, what clothes you buy, etc. Your phone can collect data on where you are every second you are carrying it, what apps you are using, etc. (and most of the car data mentioned above too) Every time you make an update for anyone to see, whether its a photo or text or video, that is data about you, every like or dislike you make is data about you, every comment on every forum you are a member of is data about you.

    A few examples of what companies can find out and what this might lead to:

    1) Your driving habbits revealing that you drive late at night or speed habitually or occasionally drink-drive => higher insurance premium.

    2) This week, you just happen to buy 3 out of the 4 things that were used in the last home-made bomb MI6 diffused, maybe you were even researching passages from the Quran for an uni essay => airlines refuse to fly you. It’s not because you are a terrorist but they want to play it safe, even if it’s only a 1% risk you have terror plans, they’d rather lose £40 in fares than risk a £50 000 000 plane.

    3) You post lots of photos of doing things with your mates. A search algorithm shows that in 70% of your photos there are alcoholic drinks present => the multinational that employs you decides next time it downsizes, it will preferentially fire those who seem to have an alcohol problem.

    4) You get hacked off with your bank and decide to leave a negative review of them on whatever review site on the net. A program that trawls the internet matches the name on your review with a contact detail for you => you get a phonecall/email from the very company you were angry with saying they have heard you were disgruntled recently, can they help (no, they will not ref the review you posted, that would erode their credibility). If you are not careful this results in you not realising its a scam and you give away personal details to what turns out to be a scam artist.

    5) Your pattern of likes and browsing points to you being a Labour voter but a bit disillusioned => Google decides it doesn’t like the current direction of the labour party and starts filtering negative things about key labour figures to you, they don’t have to turn you into a tory voter, just enough to get you to vote lim dem or green or something. (I assume people know that google filters results already “to better show you want you are trying to find” no doubt)

    How would you feel if you were politely turned away at the front entrance to a jewellery store because the CCTV face-matched you with your job and pay and decided you didn’t have enough money to be worth letting in?

    What if your employer fired you because you posted a photo of yourself with a polar bear you killed and that photo resulted in the company getting blackballed?

    The “I don’t post stuff I don’t want to share” method doesn’t work because it assumes data is kept secret when you don’t explicitly make it public. Everyone (almost) sends private data on messages and e-mails and phone calls that they certainly would not want to be used to analyse and catagorise them.

    Also, it’s important to realise that it isn’t just a case of “well, I’ll use another company”, if your data is out there to be used then EVERY company can have it. And you can bet that they will reach very similar conclusions because they are running it through very similar computer programs to generate those decisions.

    Some of the above is happening now. Some of it may/will be happening in the near future. Deciding to worry about it when something horrible happens is far too late.

    Yeah, I know, I’m being paranoid.

    • #4225

      Dave perry
      Participant

      @jamie You seem to be confusing all data that you could generate, with data that is available to all. Whilst some of your points may have a grain of truth in them, a lot is exaggeration based on tv and films.

      This is what GDPR is all about. If I give consent for my data to be used by company X for their service, they can’t sell it to company Y without my consent.

      There is a big problem with fb, linkedin, twitter et al. Its not skynet, tracking your every thought. Its dull people, posting everything to the world and saying ‘look how interesting and important I am’ then wondering why bad things happen to them.

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