This topic contains 6 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Ali 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #4521

    Nerdkid
    Participant

    Any vote for a minority party like Green is basically a vote for the Tories.

    Until UKIP came along, the Tories were in a position of divide and conquer because you either voted Tory, Labour or any number of parties that eventually reduced the Labour challenge to the Conservatives.

    Now that UKIP is history, the Tories are back on safe ground of divide and conquer. You may be voting with your conscience with a minor party but you are actually helping keep the Conservatives in power.

  • #4522

    songbird
    Participant

    In local elections I think it often makes sense to vote for minor parties; Lib Dem, green or independent. They are often the most focused on local issues, often more capable individuals and not driven by ideology or a national party agenda, partly because they have little chance nationally.

    Min general elections, unfortunately you do have a point, but even here, large numbers of votes create pressure even if they don’t gain seats, see UKIP.

  • #4523

    Mike w
    Participant

    In South Leeds we got 3 labour candidates with about 2.5k votes each.

    The next highest were the 3 indipendents (who I voted for) with 1.2k votes each.

    Torys and greens only got 2 to 300 votes each in the most part.

    Hopefully the independents can keep up the momentum for next time and might win something. All 3 of them are far more active in the community that the mainstream guys.

  • #4524

    logi
    Participant

    I think it’s worse than that. The UK national constitutional/electoral system hasn’t been fit for purpose for a long time and it is approaching a crisis because Corbyn is refusing to follow the normal process which moderated change and allowed the two party system to function (i.e. when the incumbent party moves to the extreme the opposition moves to the centre and when the incumbent party takes one side on an issue which splits the electorate roughly 50:50 then the opposition takes the other.)

    There has been far too much complacent ‘we are the best in the world’ rejection of modernisation by the electorate and as a result far too much ‘muddling by’ with obviously illogical and outdated structures. Partly it is nostalgia from an aging electorate and partly because our education system is far more interested in making kids learn about democratic reforms in the UK hundreds of years ago than comparing the current UK system with that of other advanced democracies.

    • #4525

      ricky
      Participant

      The advanced democracy that brought the world Donald Trump and all he stands for, for instance ?

      • #4526

        logi
        Participant

        Advanced democracies like Scotland for instance. Or some of the countries whose constitutions were created after World War 2, like Germany. There have actually been some good ideas on how to govern a democracy since 1700.

        The UK is a mess:

        1. No written constitution with citizens rights and a constitutional court to interpret it.

        2. The House of Lords.

        3. Asymmetric federal system with the largest part of the UK not having a devolved parliament at all and different nations of the UK having different devolved powers. No representation of the devolved governments in a second chamber at the federal level.

        4. First past the post, no proportional representation.

        5. The monarchy.

        6. Centralisation in London. MPs personal wealth too heavily dependent on London property.

        7. The whole Westminster alcohol fueled boys club culture with its illogical historical rules and procedures.

  • #4527

    Ali
    Participant

    I think this is rubbish, honestly simplistic. Are you digging deep for excuses of why the tories are still in government?

    A vote for a minority party is democracy, you should be thankful you have the choice and if enough people vote that way then things may eventually change. To say a vote for greens is a vote for Tories is bonkers, it is counted and recorded as a vote for greens.

    Our system is far from perfect and I voted for change for many years, but it is what it is, no vote is wasted. Do you not appreciate that every single vote for whatever party is logged, noted, analysed, put on spread sheets and graphs. Possibly by the Russians, but somebody cares about every vote.

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